The article below is a great example of how the anti-gun establishment is trying to make strides forward. They are masking their attack on our 2nd amendment right by ditching the “ban guns” cry from years past and replacing it with “common sense” laws.
Red Flag laws violates several of our rights and is 100% designed to move toward gun ownership rights being diminished.
They talk a lot in the article below about “middle ground”. There is no middle ground when it comes to the 2nd amendment. ANY move towards the “middle” takes away our rights and is a crack in the 2nd. It is opening the door for the next “common sense law” and then the next and then the next… and we all know where that leads.
I am sick of seeing supposed gun advocates cave and show any support for anything that changes the 2nd. They are either cowards or not really gun advocates.
I really don’t care about your political leanings. You can be the most conservative or a big lefty and it doesn’t change the facts. Even people who don’t own guns should be concerned. Modification of rights will not stop at just gun rights.
Take a minute and read this article disguised as news and focused on placing thoughts of “it’s ok” in readers head.
John
COLUMBUS, Ohio (WDTN) – This week, lawmakers at the Ohio Statehouse took time to hear opponents of House Bill 585 which is modeled after Governor John Kasich’s 6 proposed common sense measures to deal with guns and gun violence.
Kasich did not write the bill, he didn’t even come up with the proposals himself; he had a taskforce of pro-2nd Amendment honoring people from both sides of the political spectrum who demanded be willing to make compromises get together and hash out several items.
One of the proposals is a Red Flag provision that would allow the authorities to take someone’s guns from them if they are a danger to themselves of others.
The provision is far more complicated than that, suffice to say the version in the bill being heard allowed for the weapons to be taken after law enforcement received a tip from someone of that danger, and then went to a judge who reviewed the information and found it credible enough to allow the police to seize the weapons.
The guns at that point are not gone forever, they are held until it can be determined if the person is truly a danger or not.
The rub right now is in how long that period of time is before the determination.
Opponents of the bill don’t think the guns should be seized without due process, and in several versions of the Red Flag provision circulating as bills at the Statehouse the time before a hearing to determine a person’s mental fitness can range from 72 hours to 15 days.
Opponents say, a single hour is too long.
But that is just one part of the bill, there are other parts that opponents are not happy with; but that is not what this story is about.
This story is about finding a middle ground, if there is one.
One of the many people who came to the Statehouse this week to speak in opposition of the bill was Dan Padula.
Padula is the President of the Western Reserve Fish and Game Association in Niles and he drove two and a half hours to get to the Statehouse to testify in front of lawmakers.
“It’s just such a terrible piece of legislation,” said Padula.
He and the people he represents feel betrayed and a little bewildered by the Republicans who have sponsored and introduced the bills modeled after Kasich’s proposal.
Padula says he feels Kasich himself has flipped on his gun position on guns.
And Padula takes parts of the bill very personally; like what it would do if he wanted to pass a gun down to his grandson.
On this particular issue you can cut right to the heart of the matter to some degree.
For Padula, the legislation represents the government reaching into his personal life and becoming involved with what he wants to do with his own property.
But it goes beyond property. That gun he wants to pass down to his grandson someday isn’t just a gun.
It’s not just a hunk of metal, levers and springs; it is a part of his heritage, a family heirloom, and he wants to protect it because it was passed down to him from his grandfather.
Padula fears that if the bill is passed, it is one more step toward the government requiring all guns be registered and that if they aren’t registered they will be taken away permanently.
That real fear of losing something precious to him that in turn makes him cling tighter to it.
The object to him may be a gun to others, but to him it is his grandfather’s memory.
And it’s these types of reasons supporters of the bill were there to learn and try to understand.
Padula, and opponents of the bill like him, were surrounded by supporters of the bill like Tess Stuber.
Stuber is a recent high school graduate and member of the State of Ohio Youth Activists.
They have been active in following gun legislation since the Parkland, Florida shooting earlier this year.
Stuber, and the other members of her group were not at the hearing to cause trouble, or throw anything in the face of opponents.
They were there to listen.
“With such a controversial issue, we are always working toward a middle ground and so if we don’t understand the other side there is no middle to be found,” said Stuber. “If we can understand them a little better maybe we can work to find some sort of compromise so they don’t feel like we’re infringing on any of their rights, we’re just doing things that will protect us as a whole community.”
Stuber was not alone in accepting that a middle ground was out there somewhere.
Padula agrees it exists, but does not believe the bill as written is it.
You see, that’s the difficult thing, no one seems to agree on where the middle ground is.
But there are signs of hope that it can be found with people like Stuber and Padula willing to try to locate it.
But that hope can be dashed in an instant with people who are unwilling to accept it even exists.
“There is no middle ground,” said Chris Dorr, director of Ohio Gun Owners. “The middle ground to us would be passing something pro-gun like stand your ground or constitutional carry, bills that empower law-abiding citizens to take their own self-defense into their own hands and be their own best self-defense.”
To Dorr, and people who share his opinion that is indeed the middle ground, but it may be ground they are standing on alone.
Regardless if they are right or wrong, no single group has all the answers to solve the problem we face at schools across America today.
When a school shooting happens some people say the solution is Red Flag laws. If they were in place it would not have happened.
Dorr says, Red Flag laws are not going to stop someone who is intent on getting into that building and killing people with a gun, so the solution isn’t to prevent the crime but to stop it as quickly as possible by arming as many people as possible.
And inevitably someone will say increasing the number of weapons in an area simply increases the probability one will be used irresponsibly or accidentally and end up hurting someone.
Dorr doesn’t believe that math, and says Ohio gun owners are so responsible that would not happen.
Perhaps, but are all of them that infallible?
Padula did bring up one final point that should be mentioned.
He has concerns that the laws that are already on the books in Ohio aren’t being enforced.
If that is true, then just as he says, the people responsible for enforcing those laws need to be held accountable.
If you are aware of how those laws are not being enforced you are encouraged to share your concerns with your local media outlets, and have patience while those concerns can be looked into.
And remember that things are not always the way you think they are.
Padula for example was not happy about something someone from another state said in an interview, and had to be reminded that what they were talking about is not what was being considered here locally.
Another opponent of the bill mistakenly thought it was trying to take AR-15’s away from people, which it does not.
Dorr says these mistakes are understandable given the large number of pieces of gun legislation that have been introduced at the Statehouse since the Parkland shooting.
Perhaps one of the ways to stem the tide is to pass something both sides can get behind, as Padula says, “Somewhere along the line, we have to get together and come together in the middle and say, ‘okay what’s reasonable and what’s responsible.”
They won’t take my firearms. Written mans laws are nothing compared to God. And he gave us that right to defend our families, and ourselves! So they can take that bill, and shove it!!
We need to remind these people that their position is preposterous by asking them if they would be fine with such restrictions on any of the other rights and freedoms enumerated (NOT granted) in our Constitution and Bill of Rights. We are witnessing an ongoing coup d’etat being waged against a duly-elected President. The Swamp is trying to disarm the People in advance of even more overt and direct action against the People whose power it has usurped. “The Shot Heard ‘Round the World” was fired because a despotic monarch sent his minions to disarm the people of Massachusetts. Sadly, the descendants of those brave patriots have allowed a new, despot – a Kleptocracy of their own making – to make a mockery of their God-given and constitutional rights.
What amazes me is the idea that all these left wing, bleeding heart, anti-gun, ashamed to be American liberals actually believe that the elitist people they allow to lead our country down the crapper will somehow protect them and provide some type of utopia where the world is safer and more prosperous for the average citizen. This blind trust empowers them and weakens us as the fool’s folly is like a plague that infects all of us. These people despise independence and thus desire to destroy the spirit of self reliance and independence practiced and instilled by our ancestors and those who built this country. They paint “preppers” as bad people, yet the government can’t easily care for people in need whenever there is a natural disaster. They pretend to be keeping us safe (Really? From what or whom) and providing prosperity (Excuse me, where is my subsidy check?), but it’s all a ruse for them to remain in power and hoard the wealth.
I am sure if Russia or China tries to attack us that the Obamas, the Clintons, and people like Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Shummer will be first in line to enter government built, taxpayer financed, and military protected underground bunkers while the rest of us with no reserves, no right to feed or defend ourselves, to build a home or provide for ourselves except as allowed by normal conventions and the will of the government will have to accept whatever fate is handed to us. If and when some country drops bombs or fires nuclear missiles at us, who gets picked up and transported to the secret underground shelters. Who gets fed, housed, and treated medically first? The same people who already have it all.
They try to argue that most of us don’t need firearms and should rely on the police. They have private and government provided security by people who carry guns. They live in world where they can pay for, pay off or barter favors and abuse power to get what they want, need or think they’re entitled too have. Who tells them they don’t require protection or gated communities. Who tells them not to be prepared for emergencies.
Amen!
i hear ya cluckin!!
God was taken from the home by non-believers, God was taken from public education by non-believers, God was taken out of a great many communities by non-believers. Is it really so difficult to understand why so many people have no respect for the Bill of Rights, they being God given rights. Haters and non-believers have destroyed and continue to eradicate the values and morals our nation was founded upon. Within 2-3 more generations at this rate America as we know it will cease to exist. Murderers, rapists, child molesters, socialists, Communists, thieves, degenerates, homosexuals, he/she things, etc…. Will be the norm in government positions elected from communities of the same kind of trash.
Amen!!!
Marco Rubio and Lindsey Graham are working with Feinstein to get the bill pushed through!! And he is asking me for money? Notta!!!!!!
Rubio and Graham allways seems to be on the side of people who want to take away our god given rights and they took an oath to defend our constitution and like most politicians they ignore the constitution.I HAD A JUDGE WHO WAS A FRIEND OF MINE AND I ASKED HIM SEVERAL TIMES ABOUT DECISIONS HE MADE THAT WERE NOT LAWFUL AND HE ALLWAYS SAID HE DIDNT GIVE A DAM WHAT THE CONSTITUTION SAID BECAUSE IN HIS COURT ROOM ITS HIS LAW THAT COUNTS .IVE FOUND MOST POLITICIANS THINK THAT WAY AND THEY SHOULD BE FIRED OR JAILED WHEN THEY DO NOT ABIDE BY THEIR OATH.
Vincent …. yeah I agree with you ……..and they should be fired ……. as in fired on in a firing squad …….. 90 percent of dem poltical ass holes are nothing but trators to this country and the American people of this country I said American people not the immigrant trash that’s in this country
this country is more and more becoming a dumpster for all the immigrant garbage .?????
When it comes to changing our civil rights/ Amendments to the Constitution we must not take that lightly. Once this starts nobody can say where it will stop and once the rights are gone they do not come back ever.This why we fight so hard to never allow any change.The reason for the Second Amendment is just as important today as when it was written. It is our God given right to defend our selves and holds true even today. The local police are fine people but they at the breaking point and it takes way to much time for them to get to you. What do you do when it takes 1 hour?2 hours? How about 3 hours? People lives hang in the balance that could be over in a minute. Would you want the right to defend your self and family?(citizen) Or are you willing to wait and see what happens(subject)? These were the very questions the founding father fought with and we all know their answer. Citizens must be able to bear arms! Just because you choose to live in an area that dislikes guns and allows people to die and do nothing. Or you like a area that allows guns and the citizens to own them to protect their family’s from crazy shooters. I know where i live and we are allowed to own firearms and God Bless America we do.
This issue began with the 1934 Firearms Act, and has continued with the 1968 Gun Control Act, then again in 1986 supposed Firearm Owners Protection Act, then the 1992 Gun Control Act and last but not least the so-called .Assault Weapons Ban. Need I say more
These treasonous power-mongers have redefined the word “regulated,” which in turn gave various robes the ammunition to wheedle away the absoluteness of the original amendment. The original was so simple, as to be self-defining – “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” The prelude is for defining that any and every citizen should be equipped as would be a soldier on duty (“regulated” being to be the same as . . ); and the last part is a message for the powers that be – KEEP YOUR COTTON-PICKIN’ HANDS OFF.
Now how hard is that to understand? All rules and laws governing the weapon and the citizen are prohibited by the constitution, amendment number two – PERIOD!
Any so=called middle ground or common sense law is plain ole HORSE HOCKEY = Bull Sh–t !!!t
Agree completely.
Amen! Preach it!
That is the bottom line!!
That is the bottom line!!
I agree in the 2nd ammendment, leaving it to protect the people. GUNS DON’T KILL PEOPLE, PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE.
there have been laws like that in Fl. for years it is called baker act in which they pick up person and send for a mental check up where they check you out for at least 3 days if you are ruled incompetent by Drs your family are allowed to take your guns until you are ruled competent or you tell them they can have or sell them for owner
MOLON LABE!
To quote Patrick Henry”Are we at last brought to such debasing degradation,that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defense?” Can’t say it any better then that.
Right on and God bless America!!
Any person who is a citizen of the United States and doesn’t agree with the Constitution and the Second Amendment should renounce their US citizenship and leave the country immediately. We, true patriots, don’t want you here nor do we need your never-ending hatred towards this great country. You don’t belong here! GTFO!!! You are the enemy of the USA and should be treated as such. Liberalism is nothing but a mental disorder and almost all Democrats are insane nutcases.
AMEN!!
Argeed
THANK YOU LARRY!!! YOU TOOK THE WORDS RIGHT OUT OF MY MOUTH!!!
This reminds me of – I’ll just put a little bit in! It is either in or it isn’t . There is no little bit.
There is NO middle ground on constitutional rights. YOU LIBERAL IDIOTS. Those who operate our government and even some of our so called gun advocates who can be bought by the elitist idiots of this nation, and who cower at the first sign of distress need to realize the American people who truly believe in this country will not be silenced, or have their rights and freedoms taken without a fight.
Our second amendment rights are not to be compromised. There really is no middle ground. The second amendment should either stand or be repealed (God forbid). How else can you play with the phrase “shall not be infringed.”
I AM IN COMPLETE AGREEMENT WITH JOHN MILLER. I COMPLETED MY MILITARY TIME 61 YEARS AGO, BUT I HAVE NOT FORGOTTEN WHY I VOLUNTEERED IN THE FIRST PLACE!
Thank you for your service.
The Regressive/Liberal/Socialist/Communist Democrats know that there is no way that they can gen a Two/Thirds majority in the House and Senate neither can they get 38 States to ratify such and Amendment, so they do it a step at a time, under cut it here and then there until it is gone by the Thousand Cuts.
We already have “middle ground”. Firearms can and should be removed from a person AFTER they have been adjudicated to be mentally deficient, and after they have a chance to present their side of the story. Not just because someone with a personal vendetta or agenda says so. Nancy Pelosi would happily declare that everyone she knows, meets or runs across needs to have their guns taken, as would many others.
AMEN!
You do realize until 1968 everyone could own firearms, everyone. Did we have a problem before 1968? NO Since 1968, strangely yes, wonder why that is? My theory disarm the citizenry i.e. set up. Conveniently, people are doing thing with firearms to prove citizenry should be disarmed, so we can be controlled, i.e. Hitler!
FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS !!
NO one should be able to change our Constitution. Those that try SHOULD be shot down by our courts. But it looks like some of them are collecting from the other side as well. They need to be replaced!!
There is a middle ground.You can find it in the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution. It says “SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED”. If you cannot understand the clear meaning of that four word phrase, you are obviously mentally incompetent, and we need Congress to make a law for that situation. The law would, upon your words to “take away guns” have you remanded to the custody of your state government’s mental health system until such time that you can prove yourself mentally competent. Just as you propose
for your law there would be no due process, no trial, and no jury. The burden of proof would be on you to free yourself. Or, you could shut your mouth and leave law abiding citizens alone. Did your school not teach you civics?
We gun owners do not want to hear what the left side has to say. Simply because nothing was done to the people who let the Florida shooting happen. That would be the local police department the FBI , Homeland security did nothing and they knew it was going to happen by the reports about the young man
“…SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.”
My name is Paul and this is what I have to say and can publish it if you want . First if you want to live in a communist nation then move to Russian or China I’m sure they be more than happy to control you and second quit trying to take my rights as a (FREE) America to own a gun it’s not my guns fought than parents have let down on razing their kids and have just let them have free reign on there on live with no teaching except video games and movies and as far as evil killers that’s just what they are and they will kill one way or another so with that said as far as my guns go you can them when I run out of shell if one doesn’t kill me first yes I’m a rule America red neck
You are 100% right John. If we make 1 concession then they will want 3 concessions and the next time they will want 5 concessions. etc -etc. There is absolutely NO middle ground. Guns by themselves have NEVER been the problem — people have ALWAYS been the problem.
we need a new form of government you know for the people and by the people not the few big shoots wait that’s what we are supposed to have isn’t it.
I think Charlton Heston had it right when he said you can have my gun when you can take it out of my dead hands!
Being from the formerly freest state in the union, (Vermont), we know full well what “common sense” GUN laws are all about. Our “republican” governor cave to the demands of the Bloomberg crowd and their paid demonstrators this year. The door has been opened and the grabbers have finally cracked the hardest nut in their campaign, Vermont.
Take heart brotha’! We Vermonters merely need to vote the flatland bastards out of office, and elect those who will repeal S.55. OR, force a referendum on S.55, and let the people repeal it by their own vote. A referendum may be the quickest way. While the VT Constitution states that only the General Assembly can make laws (i.e., state statutes), I’m not aware of any clause in said Constitution that precludes the citizens from UN-making laws. In the meantime, let us keep the faith and keep up the fight!
i too can’t believe the R gov caved where’s the NRA the gun control marches on.
The 2nd amendment is clear and non negotiable. If i had my way it would also be my concealed carry permit as the founders intended.
So it just takes another Family member, or someone that has a grudge against you to make you defencles? I have 3 Brothers that for years have been on Drugs, meth heads and alcoholics and from this sounds like they can take my gun rights away from me. Will the law take in to count who is claiming you are a danger and how many drug arrests the person filing the claim has had in the past?
There is no middle ground. I will not relinquish my 2nd Amendment rights. There is no common sense in bending over for liberal gun control nuts. They do not want “middle ground”. They want a total confiscation of guns from law abiding citizens with no interest in disarming M13 or other criminal armed thugs.
THERE IS NO MIDDLE GROUND!!!! Why doesn’t everyone understand “SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED”!!!!!! The common man should not have any problem with this.. I voiced my opinion with the Kasich bunch making it loud and clear my view on this and his flip due to what seemed to be a passion decision not one based on the Constitution. There in lied my mistake by giving him more credit for doing so. I feel very betrayed by the @%# that I voted for. Never again even if he ran for dog warden. He won’t be fair to the aniimalsm either.
Kasich is a George Sores blood sucker,along with Kaine ,of Va. If we loose the 2nd,The rest will follow.Had a march in March,here in the town of Alpena.MI. A town of 12000 peps !! When kids are mentioned,All the old bitties raised all kind of hell!!! I stood with sign,saying “Loose the 2nd,and the 1st will follow !! ” Sure didn’t want the sign around !!End of story ! That’s the game plan !!
Are they trying to start a modern day civil war that will end badly for those who infringe on our rights to keep and bear arms?What “WE THE PEOPLE” do with our firearms and who in our families WE legally give them to,is none of your F**CKING business,”G”!!! WE are 98+ million strong.YOU are about 7,000,YOU don’t stand a F**CKING chance against THAT !!!
“And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; or to raise standing armies, unless necessary for the defense of the United States, or of some one or more of them; or to prevent the people from petitioning, in a peaceable and orderly manner, the federal legislature, for a redress of grievances; or to subject the people to unreasonable searches and seizures of their persons, papers or possessions.”
-George Washington, Debates of the Massachusetts Convention of February 6, 1788
“That no man should scruple, or hesitate a moment, to use arms in defense of so valuable a blessing, on which all the good and evil of life depends, is clearly my opinion.”
-George Washington, letter to George Mason April 5th 1769
“A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent on others for essential, particularly for military, supplies.”
-John Adams, speech to US Congress January 8, 1790
“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.”
– Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776
“I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.”
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787
“What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms.”
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787
“The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes…. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”
– Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776
“A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785
“The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed.”
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824
“On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed.”
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823
“To disarm the people…[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them.”
– George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788
“I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers.”
– George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788
“That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural and safe defense of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that, in all cases, the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.”
-George Mason, Virginia Declaration of Rights, June 12 1776
“Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of.”
– James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788
“The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country.”
– James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789
“…the ultimate authority, wherever the derivative may be found, resides in the people alone…”
– James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788
“Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined…. The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun.”
– Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778
“Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?”
-Patrick Henry, Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution
“And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; or to raise standing armies, unless necessary for the defense of the United States, or of some one or more of them; or to prevent the people from petitioning, in a peaceable and orderly manner, the federal legislature, for a redress of grievances; or to subject the people to unreasonable searches and seizures of their persons, papers or possessions.”
– Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788
I can keep going and going. Our Founding Fathers knew what they were doing when they wrote The Constitution and its Amendments. They knew all to well that the People did not serve the Government but that the Government serves The People. The Government operates at our will and we set forth Laws that bind the Government from becoming so powerful that they Control The People. The 1st through the 6th Amendment were solely designed to protect us from the Government and give us The People certain rights to be Free Men and in control of our destiny.
You sir have said it all correctly. The real issue is the people that commit the criminal act. We have become a society that no longer teaches acceptance of failure for individuals or groups. One that can not recognize that there are alternate solutions to every issue and that the first knee jerk solution is usually not well thought out best solution.
If there is “compromise” on the 2nd Amendment, how long will it be before there is “compromise” on the 1st Amendment or any of the other amendments in the Bill of Rights? The Rights in the Bill of Rights are granted to us by the Creator, not the government. The Constitution does not grant us these, it guarantees these Rights. All of these Rights imply that there will be no infringement. Only the 2nd Amendment explicitly states “Shall Not Be Infringed”. The Founding Fathers were so concerned that these rights would be limited or taken away by an oppressive government, they wanted to ensure that the citizens of the New Republic would be able to defend themselves and their God given rights. If we compromise on the 2nd Amendment, it will only be a matter of time before our other rights will be compromised.
(ARMED CITIZEN’S ARE SAFER CITIZEN’S ETC.!!) NATIONAL CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY!! THERE IS NO MIDDLE GROUND’S!! DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION AND BILL OF RIGHTS THAT YOU TOOK AN OATH TO UPHOLD AND PROTECT YOU CROOKED BACK STABBING TREASONOUS LEFTIST’S SOCIALIST POLITICAN’S!!
im so sick of these gun activist trying to pass gun laws that they know nothing about ! i bet none of them can tell you the difference between a wheel gun and a pistole or the difference between semi automatic and full automatic! and i am sure most of them have never fired either !! I’ve been through training in the us army where i learned everything there was to know about full or semi auto. then after the army i became a police officer where i learned to use a hand gun !! i have gone through as much gun safety AS i can and I am a certified gun safety instructor . NOW you want to talk about guns and gun control , then get out there learn about guns ( ALL OF THEM ) LEARN ABOUT US LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN US AND THE MENTALLY ILL AND THE CRIMINALS !!! UNTILL YOU CAN KNOW WHATS GOING ON , AND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN US ! YOU CANNOT INTELLIGENTLY ASK THE QUESTIONS AND MAKE INFORMATIVE DECISIONS, OTHERWISE LEAVE IT ALONE AND START ENFORCING THE LAWS WE ALREADY HAVE ON THE BOOKS !!!!!! ( THAT WOULD BE A GREAT START ) THANK YOU
The democrats have served their purpose and need to be Removed. All the money grubbing republicans that are able to be bought need to go with them. They ALL took the same oath and if they aren’t willing to stand by that they need to GET OUT!!!! We have always had the Constitution in Full and it Shall remain in Christ’s name,AMEN!!!
whats the error ? I’ve given my correct name , and my correct email address !!!!!!
Long ago, when I was in college and lived in the dorm, I noted that about every other one had a gun, some hand guns and others had rifles or shotgun. There never was any incident about guns. Yes there going to be incidents as we have had in recent history. It was also noted that the person doing the shooting, had a history of mental problems but nothing was done to handle the problems. Also I spent 20 years in the military during which many of us carried weapons and there was never a problem.
For those to take the weapons from the US citizens, look of a history in various countries where the firearms was taken from the citizen-England, Germany, China etc. On the other side the Swiss have serious weapons in their homes and they have no real problem in that area.
i guess you didn’t like what i said !!! i gave the corrections the you marked. so if you can’t give me a proper answer ! (then just forget ) and remove me from your list !!!
there is no middle ground if we lose our second amendment then they will take them all if they take o then they might as well have them all Free speech is nothing without something to back it up
This another attempt to destroy our constitution and REPUBLIC that so many supposed educated people call a Democracy. Get a real education and quite bragging about your true stupidity. Laws are not being enforced in are country as it is why do you want more? Why is millions of taxpayers dollars spent on all forms of security at federal offices and yet YOU let children suffer because of the total lack of security in many schools. A wide open “open door let anyone in with anything” policy is what harms the kids and punishes those that are law abiding citizens. Don’t believe me , then why is MURDER rate higher in London than New York City and the 5 U.S. cities with with strongest “anti-gun” laws the most dangerous on a per cap. bases. Until illegal is not always being “justified” our nation is headed for the same results of others that have become history . Safe Schools is not “rocket science” and doesn’t require teachers to be armed. With all the killings in Kansas City this year at a exceedingly high rate and with the goal of protecting children the North Kansas City school district has policies in place that protect them. It’s called restricted access and effective monitoring. Throw away your ” basket weaving 101 degrees and learn how to identify root causes then without personnel greed or lust plan a good solution. Last question is who is not following their oath of office in “preserve,protect and defend the constitution of the United States of America”
Old Dave, I graduated from Oak Park in the NKC school district and am not aware of what the policies you are referring to are, can you share specifics? Cliff
Oregon is run by Democrats and because of that we already have these repressive gun laws. The police have the right to confiscate guns here upon the whim of a party that reports a problem. You can not sell a gun privately without the buyer getting a background check. And now there is a group trying to get a gun control measure on the fall ballot that will essentially ban all semi-auto firearms! Yes the 2nd amendment is disappearing from Oregon.
There is NO “middle ground”! There is no such thing as “common sense laws”, who defines “common sense”? I will not give one inch! if anyone is really serious about reducing shootings and such nonsense, then start by taking your children to church, introduce them to God and to god’s word, the Bible. Allow God to com back in our schools and allow students and teachers both to talk to God. Teach our children, in school and at home, the sanctity of life. Do not allow your children to play video games that involve shooting or killing. These tend to desensitize children to the stark reality of shooting and killing. Be responsible for your own actions, be responsible for your children’s actions, teach your children to be responsible for their actions. leave our Constitution alone!
there is one person that the people in this countryis followng about the gun laws and taking them away from all the gun owners in america .and he was a democrat and our last illegal president . he also was muslin and invited all of the muslim contrys to send there people here to taake over the u.s.a .. the man is still running the democratic party from his provited house and any offices he has . he was the person who put gun laws into affect that president trump cant change even if he trys . because all the democrats still are doing his job even now and he is not in office
Our 2nd amendment rights are not negotiable! There is no middle ground.
Do your damn jobs. Enforce existing gun laws! Send criminals to jail. Execute murderers. Leave law abiding citizens alone.
1934 Gun Control act: a “reasonable” 100% tax on the price of a Colt Thompson SMG placed a 200 buck tax on the transfer of ALL Automatic weapons, Short barreled shotguns, and Short barreled rifles….suppressors would later be added to that registry and taxation scheme, making the US the ONLY modern country where anyone cares about suppressors, in Europe up to the 1990s you could get a suppressor at the hardware store In European countries that still allow firearms, the ownership of suppressors is considered mandatory for hunters to be polite to other hunters and surrounding populaces, the writers of the Act figured at the time that the tax would prevent law abiding citizens from becoming Al Capone…because the mobsters regularly followed all laws up to that point.
1964: Reasonable regulation changes to create an entire class of business following JFK assassination, requiring that there be state FFL dealers that transfer guns to their states residents rather than the mail order ability Oswald used to order a gun through the mail…this would create paperwork trails and record keeping requirements allegedly to make it easier to trace a gun…time to trace the mail order Carcano rifle Oswald used: a bit less than one hour, and they knew the mailing address it was shipped to and the recipients name.
Current time to trace a found, or crime gun in the US, a few weeks….I’m a dealer, I have talked to the tracing branch a few times.
1968 GCA: A “reasonable” prohibition of the import of all “cheap handguns” after the assasination of the 2nd Kennedy brother, the writers of THAT law stated they wanted average inner city folks and the poor to be priced out of the market…typical D party racist BS that had zero effect of crime or criminals,
1986 GCA: “Reasonable” prohibition on the cheap handguns and rifles that replaced those banned in the 68 GCA, also turned machinguns into real estate. Clinton era “Assault weapons ban” would “reasonably” ban magazines and certain evil features on rifles…sunset after 10 years of doing absolutely nothing other than cranking the price up a few bucks. Also the Clinton Brady bill, that created the NICS check system we have now in 1997, prior to that anyone could buy a gun by filling out the federal paperwork and ponying up the cash, many states had there own background check scheme up to and even after that implementation.
In this time period, from 1934 to now, there have been more than 20,000 federal and local “reasonable” gun laws passed. NOW, without talking BS like the fictitious “gun show loophole” or the falsity of “internet gun sales” what exactly is a furtherance of “reasonable gun laws” to come next?
Can you name any other constitutional right that has been subject to a 90 year onslaught of restrictions to lawful citizens in the fallacious drive to control CRIMINAL behavior?
Can you name a single mass shooting in the US where the guns were not purchased with a background check, or prior to that a properly filled out 4473?
Can you justify curtailing a law abiding citizens constitutional rights as an emotional retaliatory strike against people who never will obey any new law you propose regardless?
I believe the idea of a red-flag law is good one. Clearly, the law must be carefully written to protect those to whom it is mistakenly (or unjustly) applied. In particular, it must be clear that neither the complainant nor the police can make the decision to remove firearms (or other weapons) from an individual for cause – only the court can do that. Secondly, it must be clear that the confiscated weapons remain the property of the individual, to be returned when the individual is determined to not be a threat to others, or after a reasonable period elapses if no determination is made. Thirdly, the individual must have representation at the proceedings. Fourth, anyone who permits access to a firearm by the individual under a red flag order should be held to be a co-conspirator to any crime committed with that weapon. And finally, a reasonable appeals process must be instituted so the targeted individual has the opportunity to clear the procedure and retrieve his/her weapons if no longer a threat. The application for a red-flag judgment or appeal should be given the highest priority by the courts.
Such a law would have clearly applied to the perpetrator of the theater shooting in Aurora, Colorado: the psychiatrist treating the individual clearly knew he was homicidal and warned the campus police – who simply banned the individual from campus and did nothing else. The Florida school shooting could also have been avoided with such a law;
perhaps the Connecticut school shooting as well (if the perp’s mother had kept her weapons secured from him.).
Sounds good on paper, but, who is going to pay all the attorneys fee’s.
Where is the authority for suspending one’s Second Amendment rights until the impacted individual can prove to a tribunal that he or she is fit to exercise such rights?
Yay to Russell Tower (respondent)
To all the people who want to get rid of the 2nd Amendment, STFUAGTHO.
It’s past time for gun owners and protectors of freedom to quit being blase’ and respectful to these communist bastards- tell your RePuke or Demrat representative to keep their F—-ing hands off your gun rights, 2nd Amendment rights, and your God given right to defend yourself Period! Do you think for a second the early American Patriots were respectful and gentle speaking to the RedCoat scum that came to disarm and kill them
No matter how much lipstick you might put on the pig of Gun Control, nothing changes. The ultimate and continually mentioned goals of the anti gunners anti civil rights types is the complete abrogation of basic civil and constitutional rights. I continue to wonder as to when, if ever gunnies will wake up.
There is no such Thing as Common Sense Gun Control Laws, it is a Muse to restrict Freedom and Liberty of Citizens to make them Subjects under Tyranny. Being that these Criminals violate several Laws in their Acts. There is no Law that will ever stop Criminals. Never is there discussed Common Sense Punishment for Criminals. America is reaping it’s Seeds of being a Godless Nation and by removing God from Schools and Society, that the Devil moved into our Schools with Drugs, Hatred and Rebellion, etc
There needs to be Public Hangings or Executions, that Criminals or potential Criminals will see to deter them from their Acts.
The News Media is a huge Advocate for Criminals, glorification of Crime and Gangs for Ratings, in Addition to the TV Shows and Movies glorify it too
ANOTHER SCHOOL SHOOTING:(… BOTTOM LINE IS THIS, IT’S NOT,,, DID YOU HEAR ME YOU LIBERAL IDIOTS I SAID NOT A GUN PROBLEM. IT’S A CHILD PROBLEM!!!
TELL ME WHAT NORMAL CHILD WAKES UP, GOES TO SCHOOL AND KILLS HIS SCHOOLMATES AND TEACHERS? IT’S A CHILD WHO WAS NOT DISCIPLINED (never had his butt beat), WAS NEGLECTED, FATHERLESS OR SPOILED ROTTEN BY MOM’S AND DAD’S BEING THEIR FRIEND INSTEAD OF BEING A PARENT! I’M RETIRED AIR FORCE AND TOOK AN OATH TO SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION. I HAVE NEVER HAD MY OATH TAKEN AWAY. I WILL BACK THE 2nd AMENDMENT WITH MY LIFE AND SO WILL EVERY CURRENT AND RETIRED MILITARY MEMBER I KNOW. WE ARE NOT PLAYING GAMES LIKE THESE CLOWNS PELOSI, SCHUMER, WATERS AND THERE KIND. MY RIGHT TO BARE ARMS WILL NEVER BE INFRINGED! GOD BLESS THE USA.
I’m pissed off at the “Gun clubs/Owners” as much as the liberal gun grabbers.
The Constitution limits government to those area “Enumerated” and the Bill of Rights is an area of the Constitution the government has no jurisdiction, and cannot change a “Dam thing” without a Constitutional Amendment”,
They can’t pass a law and change a dam thing in the bill of rights, without a Constitutional Amendment.
The authority to keep and bear arms was meant to prevent exactly what we’re seeing take place, THAT IS,
People with the “Ass”, “Guts” and “Backbone” to use those guns against people trying to destroy our rights by creating and passing “so called Laws” that are in violation of the Constitution.
Stop your dam “whinning and crying” and issue a “CALL TO ARMS”,
OR “SHUT UP” AND JUST TURN IN THAT PIECE OF SCRAP METAL YOU CALL A GUN.
I suggest we discuss a law that would abridge the first amendment rights of those who would abridge second amendment rights.
MIDDLE-GROUND……IS CAPITAL PUNISHMENT
START EXECUTING THESE KILLERS IN A TIMELY FASHION…..ALLOW “ONE” APPEAL
THEN SAY GOODNIGHT AND CANCEL CHRISTMAS…..ITS…..”LIGHTS OUT” FOR
THE SHOOTER!!!!! ☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️
Newly Released Gov’t Study Shows Overwhelming Number of Shootings Are Defensive
April 22, 2018 at 2:23pm
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When the Centers for Disease Control researched gun violence two decades ago, it found that firearms are used to protect citizens more than 2 million times per year, according to an expert criminologist.
Gary Kleck of the Florida State University of Criminology and Criminal Justice recently reported on a CDC study conducted between 1996 and 1998, the results of which were never publicly released.
“CDC’s findings indicated that an average of 2.46 million U.S. adults used a gun for self-defense in each of the years from 1996 through 1998,” Kleck wrote in a summary of his research into what the CDC uncovered, but did not share with the American people.
“CDC never reported the results of those surveys, does not report on their website any estimates of DGU frequency, and does not even acknowledge that they ever asked about the topic in any of their surveys,” Kleck wrote in his paper, according to Reason.
Given the fact that gun ownership is often under reported, the actual number may be higher, Kleck said.
He noted that the CDC itself found “guns were used defensively by victims about 3.6 times as often as they were used offensively by criminals.”
Kleck theorized that politics kept the results quiet.
“(W)hy did CDC personnel decide not to report them?” Kleck wrote.
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“One obvious explanation would be that they recognized that their own surveys’ finding of a high (defensive gun use) prevalence was unfriendly to gun control efforts — efforts repeatedly endorsed by CDC-financed researchers.”
According to the criminologist, the facts should have been laid before the people.
“Regardless of how the decision was made, it was a disservice to the American people, who paid for the survey and the information it yielded, but who were not allowed to see it and judge its worth for themselves,” he wrote.
Kleck’s numbers are bigger than those coming from people who try to minimize the prevalence of defensive gun use.
In a 2015 article for Politico, Kleck said those who downplay defensive gun use “hope that total gun prohibition will one day be politically achievable, and they recognize that high numbers of DGUs each year would present an enormous obstacle to persuading Americans that disarming noncriminals would be without serious costs.”
RELATED: School Under Fire After Anti-Gun Walkout Leaves One Dead
Although the CDC did not disseminate the findings of its late 1990s work, it did share the results of a 2013 study that concluded potential crime victims can avoid injury by being armed, according to CNS News.
“Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was ‘used’ by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies,” the CDC study said.
That report also said that “defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year.”
Our “Bill of Rights” are non-negotiable! These are not man-made rights, they are “God-given” rights! Trying to use subtle “brainwashing” techniques to convince people to be “open-minded” is not going to work! There are too many proud patriotic Americans that will stand and defend this country and our Constitution from being trampled. Those of us, and there are many, that have taken the oath to give our lives to supporting and defending this country and the Constitution of the United States of America, will not stand idly by and watch the American Dream trampled into the dust by people that want the USA to become just another “socialist” third world country! GOD BLESS AMERICA!
Unfortunately, there is no enumerated constitutional right that is not infringed. Courts have ruled repeatedly that all rights balance individual liberties with the requirements to live in a society, under a government authority. This means that in the eyes of those who do the regulation and enforcement, you as an individual have a limit to your rights and liberties.
Currently we live under conditions that are clearly in violation of the bill of rights, yet these conditions are the generally accepted parameters of modern life, and the majority are silent concerning them. I’ve watched both republicans and democrats work on destroying liberties and rights, and still the populace remains transfixed by their faith in politicians.
I’ve heard the NRA, via Chris Cox make the statement that red flag legislation on the national level is the way to go, yet I still get to hear from people how much they defend our RKBA.
Puh leez.
When it comes to the NRA and politicians upholding our liberties, that dog don’t hunt. Instead, people need to start asking them why.
No one asks the question why.
Why should I have to surrender more freedom?
Why do I have to pay for the misdeeds I had nothing to do with?
Why is it ok to take my right away for self defense, and further, why do I have to believe this makes anyone safer?
WHY?
So far, I haven’t heard any answers that hold water from anyone pushing for the latest loss of liberty.
I don’t know where this latest circus is headed, but our rights are too precious to simply sign away. We have an obligation to safeguard all of them, if for no other reason than that they are a great idea, and great ideas deserve to exist to inspire and uplift everyone.
As a retired Military Member, I have taken the Oath several times. I have on several different occasions almost lost my life in defense of this Country, The Flag and The United States Constitution. I “WILL NOT” freely give up any of my rights that I have fought for and that includes my God Given Right to own and bear arms. Politicians be damned, Judges be damned and members of law enforcement that approach me to confiscate my weapons be damned. I’ll give them up “Bullet’s first.”
There was no middle ground when it came to gay marriage. Marriage is not a right! And others no constitutional protection for it. No “common sense” solutions were considered. They just shoved it down our throats.
So I don’t accept and compromise to my constitutional right to own and carry.